I know I already e-mailed you but I found a better way to articulate my question. I obsess way too much. :) I posted a picture of a color wheel and a tonal wheel on my blog. It is not the best representation of what I had hoped but it represents a gradation effect of tones that relate to the colors on the color wheel. The lightest tone begins at yellow and travels in both directions around the color wheel reaching the darkest tone at violet. Can you tell me your thoughts? My real question is; Do these tones on both sides of the color wheel gradate at the same rate of strength ending at violet? If that is true then not only would colors have complimentaries and such but so would tones. Looking for some thoughts on the subject. Greg
I hope that you don't mind me jumping in here with a possible answer to your questions about the color wheel and tonal value. The best system I know of for understanding both was developed by Albert Munsell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munsell_color_system . The Munsell system is taught at major art colleges world wide, and there's even a Munsell color science laboratory: http://mcsl.rit.edu/ . A "cliffs notes" introduction to the system can be found here: http://www.applepainter.com/ Once you have familiarized yourself with the system ( which isn't as complicated as it first appears) you can put your knowledge to the test here: http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 . I hope that these resources can help to answer your questions.
Thanks, Jen! That's definitely some good advice. Art theory, like music theory, is super interesting and can help answer questions when your work has a problem that you can't figure out.
Jen, Thank you for your advice. I am going to look into all of your suggestions with vigor. I think my greatest fear when it comes to color and value is that I will make embarassing tonal mistakes and I want there to be harmony between color and value. I know that what I am really studying is light, intensity and effect and how that relates to color and value. I will always work to improve my ability to see acurately but when working from my imagination I want to get rid of some fuzzy areas in my perception. I don't want to fool myself into thinking a painting is good only to discover that the tonality is embarassingly flawed. I want to hit the bullseye and I want to hit it every time. It's great to be able to connect with all of you and I really appreciate it. Maybe my obsession over this will have some colorful results.:)
I just studied the Munsell models and I think I am closing in on some answers or at least some better questions. Is it true that the hue,chroma and value of a color can convey perspective?
Yes, that's one of the most effective ways to show depth in a painting. Closer objects have more saturated color, as well as more tonal contrast. Far away objects are going to be softer in color and contrast, often with the color more greyed down, also usually with cooler colors. The thing about these kinds of "rules", though, is they are good to know, but as an artist gets further along, the same rules can be bent and broken, depending on what you are trying to do with your painting. Some complicated lighting situations can turn these ideas around. For instance, if you have a cool shadowed area in the front of your painting, and warm light in the background, your colors in the shadows towards the front are definitely going to be cooler. Still, it's best to start out with the rules in place and save the fancy stuff for later!
Sorry to jump in once again. I don't know about perspective, but depth; yes. For example: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Eiwce13X738/R5L7nYhFV6I/AAAAAAAABW0/2qDS6-iXnOA/s1600-h/Grimshaw_The_Lovers.jpg note that the areas of the painting that are furthest away from the viewer have little contrast in value and low chroma, while those that are closest have greater contrast in value and higher chroma levels. The hues themselves matter less than the chroma and value in creating the illusion of depth. A similar effect can be found here: http://www.imaginistix.com/details.cfm?Id=381 the mountains stay within a 5-7 value while the values of the figure range from 1-10, making the mountains recede visually with the comparison.
I hope this helps! You might want to check out James Gurney's blog for his explorations of color: http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/search/label/Color I'm still making my way through it and finding it quite informative!
Have you tried the Munsell color test yet? It's actually a lot of fun!
I think that I am at least ready to do some studies. Thank you guys so much for pointing me in the right direction.
I did take the color test. I scored a 4. I am going to continue testing myself until I get a zero. 4 was pretty good though. I did better than I thought I would. You're right it is fun.
I just took the Munsell test again and got a perfet score. I've taken the test twice now. I took the test last night in lamplight and scored a 4. I took the test today at noon and scored a perfect 0 with just the light of day in my house. Maybe ideal light conditions play a stronger role than I first thought.
Boris and Julie, music theory was mentioned. I've played guitar for over twenty years. When I first started I didn't know how to tune my guitar. I learned chords and scales from books but never learned how to tune it. No matter what I played it sounded wrong. Then one day a guitarist showed me how to tune it and imediately I was creating music and it sounded good. I've played well ever since. I have a lot of expirience producing emotion through music. Six strings out of tune does not sound good. When I think of color...I just want to tune my guitar. I thought the link between music theory and color theory was a good observation.
Thanks, guys! I'm so happy you like the blog. It's my little way of keeping in touch with science even though I wasn't able to make a go at it for a living. I love that you've started one too!
Sorry, not trying to brag or anything, but I was just in Texas this past weekend and, at least for part of the time, the weather was great!
13 comments:
I'm officially jealous. ;-)
I know I already e-mailed you but I found a better way to articulate my question.
I obsess way too much. :)
I posted a picture of a color wheel and a tonal wheel on my blog. It is not the best representation of what I had hoped but it represents a gradation effect of tones that relate to the colors on the color wheel. The lightest tone begins at yellow and travels in both directions around the color wheel reaching the darkest tone at violet. Can you tell me your thoughts? My real question is; Do these tones on both sides of the color wheel gradate at the same rate of strength ending at violet? If that is true then not only would colors have complimentaries and such but so would tones.
Looking for some thoughts on the subject.
Greg
Hi Gregory,
I hope that you don't mind me jumping in here with a possible answer to your questions about the color wheel and tonal value. The best system I know of for understanding both was developed by Albert Munsell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munsell_color_system . The Munsell system is taught at major art colleges world wide, and there's even a Munsell color science laboratory: http://mcsl.rit.edu/ . A "cliffs notes" introduction to the system can be found here: http://www.applepainter.com/ Once you have familiarized yourself with the system ( which isn't as complicated as it first appears) you can put your knowledge to the test here: http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 . I hope that these resources can help to answer your questions.
Jen
Thanks, Jen! That's definitely some good advice. Art theory, like music theory, is super interesting and can help answer questions when your work has a problem that you can't figure out.
Jen, Thank you for your advice. I am going to look into all of your suggestions with vigor.
I think my greatest fear when it comes to color and value is that I will make embarassing tonal mistakes and I want there to be harmony between color and value.
I know that what I am really studying is light, intensity and effect and how that relates to color and value.
I will always work to improve my ability to see acurately but when working from my imagination I want to get rid of some fuzzy areas in my perception.
I don't want to fool myself into thinking a painting is good only to discover that the tonality is embarassingly flawed.
I want to hit the bullseye and I want to hit it every time.
It's great to be able to connect with all of you and I really appreciate it. Maybe my obsession over this will have some colorful results.:)
I just studied the Munsell models and I think I am closing in on some answers or at least some better questions.
Is it true that the hue,chroma and value of a color can convey perspective?
Yes, that's one of the most effective ways to show depth in a painting. Closer objects have more saturated color, as well as more tonal contrast. Far away objects are going to be softer in color and contrast, often with the color more greyed down, also usually with cooler colors. The thing about these kinds of "rules", though, is they are good to know, but as an artist gets further along, the same rules can be bent and broken, depending on what you are trying to do with your painting. Some complicated lighting situations can turn these ideas around. For instance, if you have a cool shadowed area in the front of your painting, and warm light in the background, your colors in the shadows towards the front are definitely going to be cooler. Still, it's best to start out with the rules in place and save the fancy stuff for later!
Hi Gregory,
Sorry to jump in once again. I don't know about perspective, but depth; yes. For example: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Eiwce13X738/R5L7nYhFV6I/AAAAAAAABW0/2qDS6-iXnOA/s1600-h/Grimshaw_The_Lovers.jpg
note that the areas of the painting that are furthest away from the viewer have little contrast in value and low chroma, while those that are closest have greater contrast in value and higher chroma levels. The hues themselves matter less than the chroma and value in creating the illusion of depth. A similar effect can be found here: http://www.imaginistix.com/details.cfm?Id=381 the mountains stay within a 5-7 value while the values of the figure range from 1-10, making the mountains recede visually with the comparison.
I hope this helps! You might want to check out James Gurney's blog for his explorations of color: http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/search/label/Color I'm still making my way through it and finding it quite informative!
Have you tried the Munsell color test yet? It's actually a lot of fun!
Jen
I think that I am at least ready to do some studies.
Thank you guys so much for pointing me in the right direction.
I did take the color test. I scored a 4. I am going to continue testing myself until I get a zero.
4 was pretty good though. I did better than I thought I would. You're right it is fun.
Everyone enjoy your day.
Greg
I just took the Munsell test again and got a perfet score. I've taken the test twice now.
I took the test last night in lamplight and scored a 4.
I took the test today at noon and scored a perfect 0 with just the light of day in my house.
Maybe ideal light conditions play a stronger role than I first thought.
Boris and Julie, music theory was mentioned. I've played guitar for over twenty years.
When I first started I didn't know how to tune my guitar.
I learned chords and scales from books but never learned how to tune it. No matter what I played it sounded wrong. Then one day a guitarist showed me how to tune it and imediately I was creating music and it sounded good. I've played well ever since. I have a lot of expirience producing emotion through music.
Six strings out of tune does not sound good.
When I think of color...I just want to tune my guitar.
I thought the link between music theory and color theory was a good observation.
Well, you know what they say about the weather here in TeXas! Great pic Julie!
Nicole~
Thanks, guys! I'm so happy you like the blog. It's my little way of keeping in touch with science even though I wasn't able to make a go at it for a living. I love that you've started one too!
Post a Comment